To mark the 200th anniversary of Beethoven's death, Daniele Gatti and the Staatskapelle Dresden are dedicating a complete symphony cycle to the music of the Bonn-born classical composer. Gatti argues that Beethoven is not a museum piece, but a living, breathing composer whose spiritually driven music can always be rediscovered – in a fascinating dialogue with the ongoing Mahler cycle.
A conversation between Daniele Gatti and Michael Ernst.
Daniele Gatti
Maestro Gatti, next year the eyes of the music world turn to Ludwig van Beethoven as we commemorate the 200th anniversary of his death. As an Italian, what is it that fascinates you about him?
I can only really answer that question as a musician, not as an Italian: Beethoven wrote music for all humanity. What continues to fascinate me about this composer is the message in his work and its modernity. His music has never ceased to astonish or to attract an infinite number of admirers, from us professional musicians to an audience that has never stopped growing. And we hope, of course, that it will continue to find more and more fans amongst future generations, inspired by Beethoven’s modernity and his message of beauty.
Beethoven’s symphonies can be constantly reinterpreted, offering fresh perspectives and allowing for new approaches. We have moved from the monumental performances of past years to those on period instruments, thanks to the many musicians who have dedicated time and energy to further uncovering and fathoming the secret of Beethoven’s music.
This explains why Beethoven is not some antiquated composer of a past era. He is a living artist, and even today, we can look to his works for answers. Our task is to explore these again and again in order to reveal the contemporary messages within them.
What role does Beethoven’s music play in Italy?
Beethoven’s music occupies the same role in Italy as it does everywhere else. In our concert halls big and small, his works – in particular, the symphonies – are performed just as regularly as they are in France, Germany or England. For me, Beethoven’s music is not bound by time or national borders. In fact, we shouldn’t speak of geographical boundaries, as anyone with sensitivity and a love of music can develop a deeply personal, even unique, connection to Beethoven’s works. And that is exactly where his greatness lies: he was a person who wrote for the whole of humanity.'
So far, the focus of your work as Principal Conductor of the Staatskapelle Dresden has been on Gustav Mahler. How would you evaluate this experience?
I am very happy and proud to have brought a complete cycle of Gustav Mahler’s symphonies and songs to Dresden. Apparently, this is the first such Mahler cycle to have been programmed here. But, of course, we haven’t just performed Mahler: we’ve completed our Schumann project, explored Strauss’s music, and have begun to tackle Wagner – and we shall continue to do so.
By spreading the Mahler cycle over several seasons, our Dresden audience has the opportunity to forge an ongoing and intensive relationship with the composer. It’s my dear hope that when we finish the cycle after three years of work, Mahler’s symphonies will have found a permanent home in the repertoire of the Staatskapelle Dresden.
Daniele Gatti
The Mahler cycle continues next season. At the same time, you are launching a complete cycle of Beethoven’s symphonies. How do these two titans of the symphonic form complement each other?
Of course, we’re now turning our attention to the Beethoven anniversary year with the same sense of purpose, honouring it with two complete cycles of his nine symphonies. As well as the performances in Dresden, we’re taking these works on tour to Spain and other major European cities.
In my view, it’s less a question of these two composers »complementing« one another. With Beethoven, we are speaking of absolute music, of pure music, which essentially evolves through the continuous refinement of form and the development of musical material. In contrast, Mahler opens up an entirely different horizon. As he famously said, his music encompasses a whole world. It embraces diverse elements, even theatrical ones, in the most literal sense, with frequent references to nature, the military field and human tragedy.
The individual human is always at the heart of Mahler’s music. With Beethoven, however, the focus is on the Spirit. This is perhaps the defining difference that I am still seeking to uncover and develop in my own work, if I may say so.
Is there still something new to discover in Beethoven? What can the audience expect from this cycle?
Every musician brings their own personality to the work. For me, it’s particularly thrilling to discover something new in the music. That’s why I don’t simply rely on the scores I already have – in the case of the Beethoven symphonies, that’s four different editions. Whenever I dedicate myself to a cycle, I like to have fresh scores in front of me, so that I can begin the rehearsal process entirely from scratch. Of course, my many years of professional experience have, to some extent, shaped my interpretive approach to Beethoven’s symphonies. But that doesn’t imply any kind of complacency, or that I simply fall back on previous work and ideas. One should constantly question what has been achieved and start over with a fresh perspective.
Ultimately, the audience will judge our approach and our interpretations. Therefore, it’s very important to me to embark on an inspiring and stimulating journey through the world of Beethoven’s symphonies together with the musicians of my orchestra.
Beethoven was not only a musical innovator and one of the very first consciously »independent« artists – he also conveyed messages through his music, which are once again highly relevant in today’s world. Does this play a role in your approach to the symphonies?
These are aspects that go beyond purely musical considerations. There were, of course, musicians before Beethoven who worked with a certain level of artistic freedom, even if they were in the service of aristocrats or archbishops; we need only think of Bach, Mozart or Haydn and the wonderful unfolding of their musical languages. Their circumstances certainly did not hinder their evolution as artists.
When we hear the first movement of the Second Symphony, for instance, we shouldn’t ask whether Beethoven was »free« or not. The decisive factor is the musical quality – that’s always the most important aspect. Beethoven was an exceptionally meticulous craftsman, and it was precisely through this that he was also a genius. The way in which he developed the symphony, perfecting its form, is the expression of a profoundly musical mind. When listening to Beethoven’s symphonies, nothing else should distract us; we should concentrate fully on the evocative and poetic power of his scores, on the expressive strength of everything he wrote.
Daniele Gatti
Given the current state of our world, has the closing chorus of Beethoven’s Ninth Symphony, with its message of universal peace, become a kind of utopia? An unattainable dream, perhaps?
I certainly hope not! I’d prefer to answer the question more positively: this piece offers a message of peace and brotherhood, a message that intelligent and sensitive people have never ceased to embrace. My wish is that we never forget it. Beethoven’s marvellous achievements were not just as a musician; even today, we must not stop fighting for the common good.
Is that why Beethoven’s Ninth is being performed at the Palm Sunday Concert, especially in the somewhat daring combination with Richard Strauss’s »Metamorphosen«?
Beethoven can be seen as the progenitor of all that followed him, not just the symphonic form as we understand it today, but also of a particular moral outlook. In this regard, it’s relatively easy to draw connections between Richard Strauss and Beethoven. One was born in Germany but established himself in Vienna; the other, Strauss, remained deeply rooted in Germany, where he was born and made his career. However, I don’t believe that such facts should influence our wish to attend a concert.
Other musical considerations are much more important. »Metamorphosen« is one of Strauss’s final works, so the first half of the concert undoubtedly has a sombre, mournful character. But let’s not forget the religious connection: Palm Sunday is the final Sunday before Holy Week, namely the week preceding the Passion of Christ. This obviously brings a sense of death and ending. Yet Christ’s death is followed by his Resurrection, and with it the hope of life without end, indeed a new and different life; what the Germans call an erneuertes Leben (a renewed life).
If we consider the dramaturgy of this concert, the melancholic, dark and, one might say, pessimistic character of Strauss’s »Metamorphosen« fits perfectly as a prelude to Holy Week. Beethoven’s Ninth, on the other hand – as you rightly point out – is a hymn to life, to joy, to freedom and to brotherhood. In this sense, it represents a rebirth. Our programme was deliberately designed with these ideas in mind.
You are continuing the Mahler cycle with works that the composer himself never heard: »Das Lied von der Erde« and the Tenth Symphony. Do you consider Cooke’s version of the Tenth to be the most authentic?
I have great respect for this version. Naturally, I’ve consulted other editions, but I consider Cooke’s – in all modesty – to be the most faithful to Mahler’s intentions. I find it entirely convincing; that’s why I’ve performed it several times. There are no interventions or alterations as found in other editions, where the instrumentation, for instance, has been changed. It remains extremely close to the surviving sketches of the Tenth, particularly in the final three movements. Of course, like other musicians, Cooke had to complete certain passages for which only drafts exist. What I admire so much about this reconstruction is its sense of obligation to the music: this is what enables us to actually hear Mahler’s voice.
Of course, opinions on this differ. Some conductors simply do not accept this approach: they do not view the Tenth as an original work and thus refuse to perform it. I, however, consider the draft Mahler wrote to be so significant that we should be very grateful for the efforts of those musicians and musicologists who have striven to bring its expressive power to light – even if the result is certainly not exactly as it would have been had Mahler actually finished his Tenth.
